德赖斯·范诺顿: “我想展示的是真实”

May 13, 2015

The Talks网络杂志· 翻译：张朴

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时装设计师：DRIES VAN NOTEN，摄影：Alex de Brabant (credit, The Talks)

The Talks (TT): Mr. Van Noten, when your father retired, he preferred toclose his company rather than sell it. Can you imagine your eponymous fashionlabel going on without you?

范诺顿先生，当你的父亲退休时，他倾向于把自己的公司关掉而非卖掉。你能想象与你齐名的时装品牌（DRIES VAN NOTEN）公司没有你的时候如何继续运作吗？

DRIES VAN NOTEN (DVN): I hope that my company could live without me because I havethe responsibility for people who work with us – those in the company inAntwerp and those who produce our clothes, who print our fabrics, whoembroider. We have nearly three thousand people in India who embroider all ourthings by hand. It would be a pity if the moment I say, “I’ve had it, I’mstopping,” all those people would be kind of unemployed. And especially theknowledge that we have tried to keep alive in small villages in India or asmall mill in Cornwall that’s still doing hand-woven fabrics. So, I really hopeit’s possible and I’m convinced that we’re structuring things so that ifsomething would happen, the company can live without me. As a responsiblefashion designer, you have to work like that, I think. It would be a bitselfish to say, “It can be only me who can make this survive.”

我希望我的公司能够在没有我的情况下生存下去，因为我对于那些和我们一起工作的人富有责任——这些人包括在安特卫普公司的人，他们生产服装，印制衣料，刺绣加工。我们在印度有差不多3000人手工刺绣所有我们的衣服。如果到了这个时刻，我说，“我到此为止，停止设计了”，所有这些人都会处于一种失业状态——这将非常可惜。特别是对于像在印度的小村落中，我们一直尝试想把手工技艺保持住，或者在康沃尔的小型工厂，人们还在采用手工纺织布料这样的情况。因此我真心希望，我相信我们筹备好以便当有什么发生，公司没有我的存在也可以运作下去。作为一个富有责任感的时尚设计师，你需要这样去工作，我认为。“公司只有我能使他长盛不衰”——这样说未免有点自私。

TT:Yet your vision is crucial. You founded the companyoriginally because being independent was the only way to make the clothes thatyou wanted to make. Now that you’ve grown into a major brand available in over500 stores worldwide, how do you maintain an independent attitude?

当然你的视野起到决定性的作用。最初，你自己建立了这个公司，因为保持公司的独立性是唯一一种方法可以创作自己想创作的服装。现在你们已经变成了一个主流时尚品牌，在全世界有超过500家店铺，如何保持独立的态度呢？

DVN: Sometimes I think it is a pity that it is not a smallbusiness anymore but rather a serious company. But we still run the company ina very organic way. It’s not that we have a strict business plan. We have anorganization behind it, but I think an organic way of finding possibilities, ofseeing things, is still important. Sometimes all the things that happen bycoincidence are what make it work.

有时候我觉得现在不再是一家小企业，而是一家正式的公司，是有点可惜的。但是我们依然用一种非常有机的方式来运作这家公司。我们并非有一个非常严格的商业企划。我们在其后有一个组织，通过有机的方式去寻找可能性，看清事物，依然很重要。有时，所有偶然生发的事务反而使其（公司）运作开来。

TT: Apparently you also open your shops somewhat by coincidenceas well. Instead of just opening a shop for business reasons, you wait untilyou stumble upon the perfect location and inspiration strikes.

显然，在开店这件事上也存在偶然性。除了商业的因素开店，你会等待，蹒跚而就找寻完美的地点和灵感敲击的时刻。

DVN: Yes. Of course we know when it would be nice to open a shopand we have the financial capability to do it, so it’s not that it doesn’t alsowork like that. In the end, it’s still a business. But, yes, maybe next timeI’m walking around New York or another city I’ll really fall in love with anice building that would be fantastic for a store and decide, “Okay, let’s dosomething.”

是的，当然我们知道开店很好，只要我们有财力去做这件事，因此这并不是说不行，不要这样去运作。最终，这是一桩生意。但是，是的，也许下次我在纽约或者另外一个城市散步，我真是爱上这座城市里的一幢非常美的建筑，棒极了，然后我决定在此开店，“好吧，我们做一些工作。”

TT: But your business is obviously not only run by coincidence.For example, in contrast to most high-fashion companies, every single look thatyou show on the runway is produced for retail.

但明显的是，你的生意并非是妙手偶得之的。举例来讲，和许多高级时装品牌公司比较，每一款在秀场上展示的服装造型都会生产并且放入零售。

DVN: Yes, and for me that is absolutely necessary. We don’t makecouture; we make prêt-à-porter. And I’m very strict with that. For me, if youwant to make dreams, make haute couture and show it without pretending thatyou’re doing something that people can find afterwards even though you don’tsell it. For me, that’s not right. I really want to show reality, not some kindof theory, like, “This is the way that fashion could look like, but you’llnever be able to get it.” For me, it’s a reality that I want to show. Okay,maybe a beautiful reality, maybe a reality shown with girls who are all 180centimeters and boys who are 188 centimeters tall, but still it’s a reality.

是的，这对于我来讲非常必要。我们不做高级订制；我们制作成衣（prêt-à-porter）。我对此非常严格。对于我，你想造梦的话，你就去做高级订制，但不要假装：因为其实你做的东西在秀场结束后，并不会售卖它们。对我来讲，这是不对的。我想展示的是真实，不是一种理论，如“这就是时尚应该有的方式样子，但是你永远不能把它们穿在身上，占为己有。”我认为，是真实本身让我想在秀场上去展示它。好吧，这可能是一个美好的真实，或许这个真实是女孩们都身高180厘米以上，男孩们都在188厘米以上，但是这仍然是一个真实。

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TT: Does knowing that you have to sell every piece affect thedesign process? Does it limit what you can do?

必须获知每件设计品都售卖出去会影响你的设计过程吗？这会限制你能做的设计吗？

DVN: Yes and no – you’d be surprised. In fact, sometimes we sellquite a lot of certain clothes that you would think are made especially for theshow. Luckily enough, we have quite a lot of people who collect the moredifficult pieces of our collection. They know that they can wear it for a longtime. It’s not like garments where you say, “Oh, this is so last season.”

是，也不是——让你吃惊了。事实上，有时候我们卖出很多件衣服，这些衣服你当时是专为秀场设计的。真是非常幸运，我们有很多买家收集我们的系列中更加刁钻，难以穿着的衣服。他们知道他们可以长久地穿着它们。我的设计不会是把一件衣服做得像上一季的衣服，你看到后会说，“这看起来太像上一季的了。”

TT: Which is nice. If you invest that kind of money into apiece, you should be able to wear it for longer than just six months.

这真好。如果你投资购买了这件单品，你应该可以长久穿着，而非仅仅只穿六个月。

DVN: I hope so. Trends are also kind of a principle that is alittle bit over, but… With houses that do a lot of publicity, a look is farmore identified with a certain period. And there of course you have a littlebit of a problem by doing publicity. You create an “of-the-moment look” andthat is a little strange when you wear that look again one year later. It’s abit like, “Oh, she looks like an old newspaper.” For me that is luckily not thecase. We built up the company without doing publicity and in that way we have amore neutral atmosphere around it.

我希望如此。时尚指标也是一种原则，显得过度滥用，但……就时装屋做了很多宣传而言，一个造型大大呼应了某个时期。在做宣传的时候你必然遇到一些小问题。你创造了一种“这一时刻的形象造型”的言说，在一年之后，当你再穿上这件衣服，就显得不伦不类了。这就有点像，“哦，她看起来像一张旧报纸。”幸运地说来，这对于我来讲，不是一个问题。我们创立公司并未大肆宣传，用此方式，在公司内外保持我们中立的氛围。

TT: Instead of investing in advertising, you have always putyour money into the runway shows.

除了投资广告，你也把钱投到秀场上。

DVN: I thought we could reach more people with a show than withpublicity. Also when you’re going to do publicity, you have to choose yourmuse. You have to choose the person who stands for everything that you’redoing. A boy and a girl. And then, is she young? Old? Blonde? Black? What skincolor does she have? Is she soft? Hard? Romantic? Is he tough? Muscular?Skinny? So you automatically kick out a big group of people who don’t identifywith the person that they see in your publicity. In that way a fashion show ismore neutral. You already have a group of, like, 40 or 50 models.

我认为，与宣传推广相比，我们通过秀可以接触到更多人。而且，当你要做宣传的时候，你需要找到你的缪斯。你需要找到这个人可以代言你做的每一件事情。一个男生，一个女生。然后，她年轻吗？老吗？金发？黑头发？她的肤色是什么？她柔软，还是硬朗，或浪漫？他很强硬吗？肌肉发达？还是瘦削？所以你自动把一大群人都踢了出去，这些人和广告宣传上的代言人不切合。从这点上来看，时装秀更加中立。你已经有一群人了，像40，50个人。

TT: Your runway shows often draw references from the art world.Your Spring 2015 collection, for example, was inspired by the painting Opheliaby John Everett Millais as well as Shakespeare’s A Midsummer Night’s Dream. Inour interview with Marina Abramović she claimed that fashion is thepopularization of art. Do you agree?

你的时装秀经常从艺术世界寻找比对。以你的2015年春季系列为例，这一系列的秀场灵感来自画家JohnEverett Millais的作品《Ophelia》以及莎士比亚的《仲夏夜之梦》。在我们采访艺术家MarinaAbramović时，她说时尚就是艺术的流行化。你同意吗？

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DRIES VAN NOTEN 2015年春夏系列秀场。

DVN: At the moment I think there is a very difficult relationshipbetween art and fashion, because a lot of artists are afraid that fashion isstarting to take over too much art. All the foundations that the fashion housesare opening and all the events happening between fashion and art, things likethat. I approach art in a different way, in a rather naïve way. I don’t know alot about contemporary art. Art, for me, is a big inspiration. I need to seeart to be able to make my work. I want to be educated, I want to be stimulatedby art. And that for me is very important.

如今我认为艺术与时尚之间的关系非常难讲，因为很多艺术家担心时尚开始过多占领侵入艺术。时装屋开设的基金会，所有时尚与艺术交汇发生的活动都如此。我以不同的方式去接触艺术，以一种天真的方式去接触艺术。我对于当代艺术知之甚少，对于我来讲，艺术是巨大的灵感来源。我需要看到艺术能为我的作品带来用武之地。我想被艺术教导启迪，我想被艺术激发。这对于我非常重要。

 TT: When you say that you need art to do your collections, whatexactly do you mean?

当你说，你需要艺术进入你的系列，这到底是指什么呢？

DVN: It’s part of my research, but “research” sounds reallystraightforward. For me, it’s more in a poetic, emotional way that I look atthings like that. An idea, a concept, sometimes just a color, just one smallelement of an artwork. When I go to Frieze in London or New York, I’ll walkaround. Sometimes there are two artworks that you see together by coincidenceand you say, “In fact, the clash of those two things for me is more interestingthan the artwork.” When I walk around in fairs like that or when I go togalleries, I look with a very open eye. Sometimes a person standing beside anartwork is more intriguing because you feel something, you get a shock, you getintrigued, you want to know more. And that for me is the fun part of it.

这是我研究的一部分，但是“研究”听起来真是很直接。对于我来讲，我将此视为更加诗意化的，更加情感化的方式（接触艺术）。一个想法，观念，有时仅仅是一个颜色，或者只是艺术作品中很小的一个元素。当我去伦敦或者纽约的“Frieze艺术节”，我会在此闲逛。有时，偶然之间，你同时看到两件艺术品，你说道，“事实上，就我来看，两件艺术品的相遇对撞比单件艺术品本身更有趣。”当我在这类艺术节中行走，或者去画廊，我保持一颗开放的心态。有时候站在一副艺术品旁观看的人更加让人着迷，因为你可以从他身上感到什么，你被击中，你被迷住，你想知道更多。这些也是接触艺术的时候非常快乐的一部分。

TT: Your clothes are considered by some to be artworksthemselves – you recently even had a very successful show at the Louvre. Doesit go against your philosophy if people collect your clothes like art?

你的有些服装本身被认为是艺术品——最近你在卢浮宫呈现了一场非常成功的秀。如果人们像收集艺术品一样收集你的衣服，这会违背你的设计理念和哲学要旨吗？

DVN: I don’t think they collect it like art. They collect it likethings they cherish, with memories attached to it. It becomes very personal.One of the most charming things I’ve seen with my work was when I visited astore in Boston. The shop owner had the idea of asking all the people whobought our clothes to bring those clothes back with a photograph of themwearing them in a certain situation. It was really touching because you saw allthe parties, weddings, births – all the different things that happen in a humanlife – presented with a garment from ten years ago and a hand-written note bythe person who was wearing it. As a designer, it was really a confrontation,like, “Huh?” You start to mean something to those people.

我不认为他们把我的服装作为艺术品来收集。他们把我的服装作为他们热爱的东西来收集，衣服里面包含了记忆。这变成非常个人化的事情。关于我的作品，让我觉得最为充满魅力的事情是，当我去波士顿，我的店铺的时候。店主有一个主意，他让所有买了我的衣服的人，回去穿上这些自己买的衣服，在某些场合中穿上它们，拍照，再把照片和这些衣服带回店里。真是非常让人感动，因为你看到了派对，婚礼，出生的场景——在人的生命中不同的事情发生着——这些场景通过一件十年前购买的衣服来呈现，还有穿着此件衣服的人手写的笔记。作为一名设计师，对于我真是一次遭遇，像是你脑子里冒出这样的感叹：“啊？”你对于这些人，开始变得具有了意味了。

采访出处：http://the-talks.com/interviews/dries-van-noten/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=dries van noten&utm_campaign=daily post 

如引用或转载翻译采访，请联系作者本人！

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张朴：

作家，挪威奥斯陆大学媒体学硕士，曾在BBC实习工作。出版文集《孤独要趁好时光：我的欧洲私旅行》《香港的前后时光》（内地与港台版）《仿佛，一场告别》。