伯克希尔股东年会上巴菲特和芒格与股东的互动问答(二)
(2009-05-17 14:28:17)
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分类: 价值投资大师及言论 |
(一段文章新浪让我分几段贴,是不是有点过份啊)
Question 17: (Audience) If BRK had a
smaller asset base and was more nimble, how would they act
differently with all of the volatility?
Buffett: They own stocks they like regardless of
what the price has done. Cost basis has nothing to do with how you
should run the fund/portfolio. You still look at intrinsic value
not the selling price
Question 18: (Loomis) If it is true that Charlie and Warren
are BRK’s competitive advantage and are now running a business that
is tough to understand, why should someone buy BRK for the long
run?
Buffett: BRK has a sustainable advantage that is
not Warren and Charlie. They have a cultural advantage based on the
business model. They have a different shareholder base than other
companies and that is a huge advantage. They have a model that
allows businesses that they buy to keep running their businesses
without a lot of input from BRK. It is very tough to copy BRK. But
this is not just about Warren and Charlie. People will always want
to join up with BRK (as a result of the culture) no matter who is
in charge
Munger: Many subsidiaries of companies are run
terribly by the centralized headquarters of corporate America. This
will remain ample enough to give BRK an advantage in the future
Question 19: (Audience) How do you
justify buying and holding when the fundamentals of a company
change?
Buffett: You sell when you lose faith in the
management or they make a mistake from the beginning. Sell when the
competitive advantage disappears. They buy a business for keeps.
This is unless they promise to lose money indefinitely or have
prolonged labor issues
When in doubt buy and hold. If you find something much more
attractive then you can sell. BRK does sell stocks periodically.
They ask the CEOs the interview what they would do differently if
they owned 100% of the company?They often hear a lot of things
people would do. There are no examples at BRK. They run it as if
they own 100%
Question 20: (Quick) Since BRK does not buy back shares,
would it make sense for an investor to sell his/her BRK shares and
just buy what Buffett is buying?
Buffett: First off, an investor can’t buy the free
float, which is BRK’s advantage. They also can’t buy the businesses
they own or make private investments
Munger: It is not a bad idea to do what the
question suggests
Question 21: (Audience) How will
inflation affect younger generations? What is BRK doing to protect
against it?
Buffett: :Inflation will affect younger
generations. Even a couple points of inflation can lead to a
slippery slope. Policies stimulating the business world will lead
to inflation and the government will have the incentive to inflate
our debt so we pay it off with less powerful dollars. In essence,
the Chinese by funding our debt are paying AIG’s bonuses. Our taxes
have not been raised yet. Fixed dollar investments will be hurt the
most. Best protection versus inflation is your own earnings power.
2 nd best protection: a wonderful business. A business that people
will patronize regardless. A business that does not include high
capital investment costs
Question 22: (Sorkin) Since the newspaper/publishing
business is struggling what should BRK do with The Washington Post
(WPO)
shares? Are there better opportunities out there? Would they buy
another newspaper?
Buffett: Current environment has accentuated the
problem with newspapers (erosion has been accelerated). Would not
buy most newspapers at ANY price. Used to be the ultimate business,
now they face unending losses. Essential nature is gone. No pricing
power. Not essential for advertisers. There is nothing on the
horizon that changes that
Could have sold the Buffalo News years ago but refused to do it. It
is worth less now. As long as they don’t see unending losses then
they will keep it
WPO has no answers for the slump in the newspaper business. Do have
good education and cable businesses though
Munger: The decline in newspapers has been a
national tragedy. Has been an important part of our history. Used
to keep the government and companies more honest. Whatever replaces
newspapers will not be as good
Question 23: (Audience) Will consumer spending changes be
permanent and impact the discretionary businesses at BRK for
years?
Buffett: When it comes to housing, in a few years
you could see an equilibrium based on a return to normalized
housing starts. This will eventually help the BRK businesses that
are tied to housing.
When it comes to retail, the high end has been the hardest hit.
Thinks this will last a while. People will save more. The
experience of the last 2 years will last a long time.
Retail real estate industry. Tough period to be in for a long time.
Shopping center business will not be the same. Centers bought with
5% capital rates will look silly
In the service industry, these companies require less capital and
are better businesses. Don’t expect a quick rebound
Question 24: (Loomis) Since BRK has endorsed share buybacks
for other companies but refuses to buy back BRK shares, should BRK
shares be discounted because of that?
Buffett: Has not written about stock buybacks in
years. Sees recent purchases as foolish. Companies spent too much.
In the 1970s and 1980s this was attractive for other companies. In
2000 they thought BRK’s shares were too low and they said so. It
was self defeating because the stock went up and then they could
not buy any shares. Would say so again if they thought shares were
that compelling
Question 25: (Audience) : Based on the macro economic
picture, how has opportunity cost decision making
changed?
Buffett: These decisions are much more in front of
mind recently. When intrinsic value is changing fast then
opportunity cost calculations are more challenging but also can be
more rewarding. Saw this is September and October 2008. Needed a
lot of cash around and had to sell Johnson &
Johnson (JNJ) shares to get in on really attractive deals. Would do
this again but it is hard to sell in huge quantities in falling
markets
Question 26: (Quick) What are the deciding factors when
it comes to GEICO ad spending and how do they measure
return?
Buffett: Measuring return is the problem of
advertising in general. Will continue to spend money on ads with
GEICO. Want everyone in the US to have in their minds that they can
save real money by switching to GEICO. People have to buy car
insurance. They don’t like to but in order to drive they have to.
Value of GEICO (by adding subscribers) goes up more than the costs
of ads. Would spend $2B on ads if they could
Question 27: (Audience) How do you know when it comes to
financials/banks if the model is still intact?
Buffett: WFC has the best competitive advantage of
all of the big banks. Big 4 banks have different models but WFC’s
is the most unique
Was very wrong on the Irish banks. Did not understand their
construction exposure.
With WAMU (WM) and the other banks and institutions that have
failed there were many signs that they were doing things that
highly levered businesses should not be doing. They simply believed
that house values could not go down. If you read the 10-K’s and
10-Q’s of these companies you could tell that their models were
different from that of good banks like WFC. Has to do with a
different cost of capitalThe information is there. You just have to
find it.
This is a very tough assessment for people who are not familiar
with the banking industry. Hard to distinguish between two banks so
these are companies better left to people with experience. Black
boxes are not suitable for passive investors. Produce numbers, not
cash.
Munger: GAAP allows companies to improve their
earnings by changing their accounting treatment of certain items. A
lot of the new regulation that is coming would not be needed if
accounting had done its job. Accountants should be ashamed of their
profession
Question 28: (Sorkin) At first glance
BYD looks like a speculative venture capital investment. Is this
really a value investment?
Buffett: Does not believe there is an investment
that is not a value investment
Munger: BYD is not an early stage venture capital
company. Not unproven and speculative. Called what they achieved
have a “damn miracle”. Achieved a leading position in lithium
batteries off of a base of zero. Then they decided to go into the
auto business with no experience. Now have the single best selling
car in China. CEO Wang-Chuan Fu is hiring the smartest engineers in
China. Charlie is not going to bet against 17,000 Chinese
engineers. Would be amazed if something great did not happen.
Believes this is a talented group of people who may carry the
future of the world. The car we are going to see is made basically
from scratch by BYD. Everything but the glass and the rubber. This
is unheard of in the car industry
Question 29: (Audience) How do you view the US Dollar (USD)
versus other currencies? Is inflation going to hurt the
USD?
Buffett: This is unpredictable but the dollar will
buy less 5-10 years from now. But this is true in the rest of the
world with other currencies as well. Hard to compare the USD to
other currencies. Governments around the world are running large
national deficits to offset demand contraction
Munger: There has been a lot
of inflation in our history. A little bit of inflation is not going
to hurt us. But you want to avoid runaway
inflation
Question 30: (Loomis) How do we quantify the impact of the
AAA downgrade?
Buffett: BRK won’t regain the AAA soon because the
agencies won’t turn around that quickly even if they should. CDS
cost actually went down when Moody’s downgraded BRK. AAA spread
versus AA spread is not material. Impact on borrowing cost is
immaterial
They lost some bragging rights in terms of their insurance
business. But no one has a better rating than they do. In Buffett’s
mind BRK is an AAA.They run the company in a way that no one could
be a better credit.
Credit agencies can’t quantify (in the ratings) management’s
opinions and views about obligations. They can’t actually quantify
the fact that no one ever has to worry about BRK being willing and
able to meet its obligations
Munger: Next change from Moody’s will be an
upgrade. He thinks they deserve a higher rating and he knows that
MCO is smart
Buffett: If they hypothetically write a $1B equity
put they get $150M in cash (the premium) and this creates a
liability on the balance sheet. The guy on the other side of the
trade sets up a receivable. On a mark to market basis the asset
goes up and the liability goes up if the market falls. But BRK has
the cash and the other guy then has to buy CDS on BRK to protect
against the company not living up the contract. The more the asset
goes up the more CDS they have to buy and then the CDS on BRK goes
up. This is a senseless self-reinforcing process
Question 31: (Audience) Can you talk about the potential
for building wind farms at Mid American?
Buffett: Mid American is the largest wind farmer
in the US. Wind only blows about 35% of the time in Iowa. Iowa has
been receptive and is the biggest wind using state. Wind cannot be
your base load because of the unpredictability. Mid American has
not raised rates in a decade in Iowa. They have been able to keep
rates down through a wind tax credit and by exploiting other
efficiencies. They charge a rate that leads to a good return and is
fair to consumers. Company is putting in more wind farms through
Pacific Corp. as well. Coming online soon in California
Munger: In anything that makes sense when it comes
to the utilities BRK is going to be a leader
Buffett: Constellation was close to Chapter 11.
Were about to receive a ratings downgrade that would have forced
them to post collateral and would have forced them into
bankruptcy
Buffett: and Mid American were there that day with
a firm cash offer. This is BRK’s competitive advantage: the ability
to write a check the day they see an attractive deal. Also have
managers that can deliver
Question 32: (Quick) In regards to the Bank of America
(BAC) and
Merrill Lynch deal, does protection of the banking system justify a
lack of disclosure? What would BRK if they were put in a similar
position?
Buffett: This was a very fragile situation.
Merrill would likely have gone under without the deal. Can see why
the government did not want the deal to blow up
Munger: You can criticize original contract
legitimately. But, once signed, the Treasury acted properly as well
as BAC
Buffett: The deal was done over a weekend. Between
Saturday and Sunday BAC got 2 separate fairness opinions on the
deal. Paid $10M for each. Those turned out to be pretty
worthless
Question 33: (Audience) What has the net effect (or future
effect) of the government interventions on BRK? Have the companies
been helped or hurt?
Munger: New rules are going to come out and it is
not clear what those rules will entail. The lobbying pressure from
the financial institutions has been quite strong and effective. But
the climate of disdain for financial institutions will limit some
of the lobbyists’ impact. BRK will have to adapt as needed
Buffett: Wall Street is thrashing around. People
do not like Wall Street right now. People have had to worry about
things such as money market funds that they have never had to
before. It is hard to satisfy the fury without high profile people
going to jail or being punished. Anger right now is sort of
amorphous and without a specific group of villains it is aimed
broadly at Wall Street and the banks. Believes this will eventually
result in legislation. Some of which could affect BRK
Question 34: (Sorkin) Due to BRK’s size the returns are not
likely to be as strong going forward as they have been in the past.
Do they target a specific return or acceptable rate?
Buffett: Impossible for BRK to average 20% a year
again. He would be satisfied beating the S&P 500 by
a few percentage points each year. 10% better than the
S&P just can’t be achieved now because of their
size. Book value will continue to be a good proxy for and barometer
of intrinsic value
Munger: Understand that they can’t multiple book
value per share at the same rate they used to. But believes that
the best days of BRK are still ahead. BRK will make a large and
positive contribution to society in the future
Question 35: (Audience) How do you
look at investments in China? How do the Chinese keep the
purchasing power of their reserves?
Buffett: Will uate Chinese opportunities as they
see them. They can’t own more than 24.9% of an insurance company in
China. GEICO faces a limitation on ownership. BRK does a lot of
things that are exportable.
Should see opportunities in buying companies in the future. China
can’t get rid of their dollar denominated assets. The US trade
deficit requires that China at least hold some dollars. Going to
build their dollar reserves as long as they have a trade surplus.
Have focused on bonds and are now not too happy about the prospects
for the purchasing power of those bonds. They have a right to be
concerned in his eyes
Munger: If he was the Chinese finance minister he
would be doing and saying the same things. But they are advancing
so fast that some loss of purchasing power will only hurt them
trivially. US and China should be close friends because they are
tied at the hip. China will be very hard to compete with in the
future
Question 36: (Loomis) Can you give us a post mortem on the
General Re deal?
Buffett: Post mortems are good to do internally
but they should not always be public. This is not done at enough
companies. Should not blame the company you bought because your
projections were wrong. So far this deal has worked out well after
some initial trouble. BRK has made some dumb decisions. Did not
realize that the General Re they bought was not the General Re of
15 year prior. Reserve and underwriting policies had changed. Now
it has been resurrected by BRK’s management. Now it is the company
that Buffett thought it was. Believe is has a great future
Munger: It is important to turn lemons into
lemonade. It is not pleasant, pretty or easy. Ordinary managers
could not have turned General Re around