从新东方上市，看语言培训市场

S: And language training business seems to be a very big one in china? What do you think about the language training market right here?

K: I think that it's overcrowded. There's an oversupply. I think there's an oversupply of many things in Shanghai. I think it's competitive. The language training business, the offline languages, the schools is not a high-profit business. They aren't high-profit, traditionally. (B: Maybe earlier.) Earlier perhaps is a little bit higher. But if you go to the UK, you go to the Europe, the States, language schools are not money making machines. So I think that a lot of the local competitors... I've been in schools for 20 years, almost 24 years. So I know this. I don't have an idea that schools are going to make me a big big rich guy. But I find that some local entrepreneurs think it will, and they think "wow, I can get rich in the school." Let me tell you. Getting rich in the school is very unlikely. And so I think what happens was that sometimes a lot of new entrants come into the market opening schools. And there's an oversupply. In the end, they won't make money; they will just close after a while. That's normal, that's a free market. I believe it's a free market.   There are different types of solutions in the market. You have, for example, Xindongfang who are very impressive. But I don't regard them as English teachers. It's more about test preparation. And they do that very well. You have a second type, which is something like maybe Wallstreet, and Web; they are using software, a lot of software. That's a different type of solution. So it depends on what you want. I suppose from a business perspective, my view is that you need to specialize. The day of the sort of generalist schools... We teach English, we teachers business, TOEFL, because customers will say to themselves: "I have a specific need; I want to improve my speaking." So I think most customers will say: "If I want to improve my speaking I will go to the place that's about speaking. So my view is to find your needs in the market and do that do that really well. Don't try to grab the whole market. To certain circumstance, that's fine. So you have Xingdongfang to test preparation for example. You have Web and Wallstreet. Kaien and Learning are another kind. So it's different kinds, different solutions.

S: So you are not extending your language courses?

K: No. Don't quote me on this, ok? Off the record. I think the more you widen you brand, the weaker you brand becomes; your brand becomes weak. The more you focus your brand, the more powerful it is. And you look at Wall Street is a powerful brand, because they just do one thing.     Basic English you are going. If you look like school like Learning, I think their brand is getting weaker, because they are trying to do kids and biz. Over time, I think their brand will become weak. I think that they want to focus, and to deliver value according to what they say. They will survive. And they want to try to be everything; over time, they will have a difficult time, that's my view.

S: Where did you get this understanding?

K: I think that's just basic marketing. I think that's basic understanding of what people want and need in Shanghai. So I think that's a big motivator for us to be that for something and try to do it.

S: What do you think about the public listing of New Oriental School?

K: I think that is fantastic. I think that is marvelous. That really makes me very happy because it shows that they are the leaders, they opened the door, they are showing the way. I think it is also  encouragement of capital. That will always encourage some bad moves of course, but it will also encourage some good moves, and it certainly encourages me because my Chinese pod, I think, has the potential, possibly to be something very big. KaiEn, we don't foresee that; we don't plan to turn KaiEn into a mass brand. We want to stay focused on what we are doing. Xingdongfang has done a great job. I might take off my hat to Mr. Michael Yu. (Yu Minhong)

说上海话的Ken

S: And what other languages do you speak?

K: I speak fluent German; I used to speak fluid French, and some Italian, Irish, I took some Greek. I've always been very interested in language. I speak some Chinese, not so well, and some local Chinese. I'm very interested in a lot of things. That's my problem. I'm too interested in too many things. I'm quite interested in dialects. I'm interested in why dialects are different from languages. I'm interested in that.

S: That's what I noted; your accent has been changing. (B:Yeah.) Maybe previously your accent is more British?

K: It could be. I left college in1983. I have been working with Americans, Greeks, Australians, Chinese, everyone. And my accent changes, I cannot control it. It just happens. I don't know why. Interestingly, I think that's good for my pronunciation. So my pronunciation, when I learn new languages, is quite good. Actually, my knowledge of the language is not good, but my pronunciation is good. So people why are you speaking very well? But actually I don't. But I can mimic the pronunciation. I don't know why that is.

S: How do you improve your Chinese?

K: I don't have time to work on it. We are in an English environment in KaiEn, because we try to create that English environment. My wife is Taiwanese. Obviously, my daughter who's seven. I try to speak English with her. So my opportunities of speaking Chinese are quite limited. So right now, most students are speaking in a studio when we were recording those records. Apart from that, yeah, throughout the day, a little bit. I don't really have the chance to do, but the lessons in the studio, I can learn, as I'm teaching, I learn.

S: Luckily, your daughter has a bilingual environment

K: Yes, she is fluent in both, Chinese, and English. And also, she understands Shanghainese very well. Because the ayi (nursemaid) speaks Shanghainese.

Ken的业余生活

S: What do you usually do after work?

K: I usually get home at about seven or seven thirty. And I try to spend one hour with my daughter. And she goes to bed at eight thirty or nine. And then I work.

S: Still working?

K: Yeah. It's the web 2.

S: I know, but no one is pushing you.

K: No, I love it it's a different kind of work. Maybe I learn after that time. I'm very very interested in web 2 technologies. I spend time on stuff like technolophy, research, audio, look for new tools. I read all of the blogs concerning web 2, education blogs, some political blogs, whatever. Basically, I try to learn and get ideas.

S: Compared with the work at daytime, which is more enjoyable?

K: It's different. It's always fun to learn stuff, and doing stuffs can sometimes be pain, because it's hard work. For me, as long as hard work is rewarding, I enjoy it. I like working with people, I like to get things done. So, KaiEn is doing well at the moment. Chinesepod is doing well. We have plans of having things like launching a new brand, using web 2 technologies, to teach English. We have an Englishpod. But we just don't have the time to focus on it. So we give it small kind of resources, Christopher did quite well, we've just been too busy to give it the resources to really drive it, because we think it has potential. But over the next few months, we will appoint a new team, a new CEO, a whole-view approach, and a new funding, new resources to take Englishpod, to change it, and to do something very aggressive with it. And so I hope we can collaborate together, Hujiang and a new version of Englishpod.

S: They have quite a lot of things to do.

K: A lot, endless possibilities.

S: You are a big dreamer.

K: Yeah

S: Please tell us something about your personal hobbies.

K: I am not a very sporty person, that's why I'm getting so fat. I'm sitting all day. Reading has always been my biggest interest, reading and learning, I'm interested in it. I don't have time to read philosophy, but I'm interested in languages, psychology. I'm interested in history. I'm interested in economics. Last few years, I began to understand something economic. I'm interested in web 2 technology, marketing, language. So I'm interested in everything, but I cannot, my hobbies tend to be reading. So it's books or something online. And fortunately, no exercise.

S: And name out one book that you've been reading lately.

K: Two books have really influenced me this year. One is called Purple Cow, which I strongly recommend to you guys too. The guy's called Seth Godin.

S: Can I find a copy in Shanghai?

K: I think you could, or on amazon. I strongly recommend it, and the second one that influences me was a book called Crossing the Cannon. It's also a business book, but it is a tech business book. It actually was written in 1991, but it's fascinating, fascinating description of how users adopt new technologies. This was a book, for example, that divided marketing into segments. He said there are innovators, early adopters, late adopters, majority adopters and so on. And he said that most markets, in a tech context, follow this kind of patterns. In other words, something like Hujiang starts off. You'll be innovators, you attract innovators, people who are interested, even the context may be less interesting, they are interested in the context of what you do. They may help you. People on Hujiang who are very active, right? And they help your brand to grow. You just let them go, let them go. That's what they do. They can be leaving. They will tend to be innovators. The second phase, he called early adopters. They are also visionary people. They are not as tech-oriented as the first way, but they believe in what can be done. But eventually they'll move into a mainstream audience. And those are people who are more interested in just the context. They want it to be easy to use. They are not interested in the technique. And I thought it was very very interesting, because it was before the internet, the book. So he based his research during the 80s and the early 90s on how tech products will be adopted. It's in the American market. And it's very interesting for me to read what he says is very similar to the way this happens on the internet. So I learnt a lot form both those books. I strongly recommend. Those are the two most interesting books for me this year. But I read a lot of books this year.

S: I guess so much for the brilliant talk, and thank you very much for the time.

K: I'm happy to be here. No problem.