China-EU Scholars’ Media Dialogue on Public Services

(9 July 2010 in Chengdu, China)

 

 

 

Reporter: Ladies and gentlemen, good evening. It’s my great pleasure to invite the China-EU scholars to discuss the issues of public services which both sides concern. First, please allow me to introduce the three scholars who participate in this dialogue, they are: Pierre Bauby, special adviser of the General Secretary of CEEP Bruxelles; Mihaela Similie, researcher on public services; Chen Guang, Dean of School of Public Administration, Southwest Jiaotong University . Today, we mainly focus on the basic concept of public services and their reality in both China and Europe.

First of all I would like to ask the EU experts, what is the basic meaning of public services in Europe? How to understand the diversity and unity of public services in Europe?

 

Pierre Bauby: First of all, thanks China for her kind invitation. I hope this will not be just a conference, but an occasion for bilateral communication and exchanges. I would like to put some emphasis here and to explain what represents diversity and unity, why can the two co-exist? For Europe and the EU member states, public services have a long history which develops along with the thriving of each nation State. In the EU, now there are 27 Member states and 23 official languages, but we also develop a common language to communicate and establish a framework for public services. Each nation State has its own terms, ideas, cultural traditions and legal system, which signifies the diversity of public services in Europe. Within the expression of this diversity and of various forms of organizations, we also found unity.

This diversity and unity resulted from a common European history, cultural values and struggle with each nation’s own cultures. It is the common values that having reached a consensus allow the emergence of common concepts. First of all, the whole of Europe have full enjoyment of the public health care, social security, transport, housing, education and other social rights for all citizens. Secondly, we make sense of each country across Europe to strengthen the links between them. Like the establishment of a harmonious society in China, we are building a harmonious Europe, called “economic, social and territorial cohesion”. Thirdly, as for China, we exert efforts for our common future to achieve sustainable development. We are also making efforts in education and other basic public services in order to ensure the sustainable development of these public services. A new era of diversity and unity are performance challenges facing the entire European Union. Please allow me to invite Miss Mihaela Similie for further precision.

 

Mihaela Similie: Concerning the above mentioned questions on public services in Europe, I would like to emphasize the responsibilities of the EU Member States and of public authorities. Public services are a long-term and common task both for national and regional level. The purpose of creating public services is primarily to serve the public needs and to meet the demand of citizens. Constructing public services which rely on the provisions of the State’s Constitution and various laws, mainly of sectoral nature, for a variety of industries, such as education, transport, health care. The users of public services are not only individuals but also various forms of legal persons. Therefore, we need to provide both individual and collective public services. Another reality is that countries exchange and benefit from one another. In fact, in Europe, the concept of public service mainly has both functional and organic senses. On EU level, it is the functional concept that prevails, representing the general interests as the purpose of such services, whatever they are provided by national or regional agencies or by private operators.

 

Reporter: Thank you for your detailed expansion to this question. We found that the public service in Europe has operated its function pretty well. As the largest developing country, what’s the current situation of China's public services? Here we invite Professor Chen Guang to explain the nature and the main contents of China’s existing public services.

 

Professor Chen Guang: I might as well use the concepts of “diversity” and “unity” to describe the situation here. Firstly, I would like to mention that the situations of public services are different in countries and regions alike because of the economic development level, history, culture and national conditions. However, despite this “diversity”, the nature of public service is consistent throughout the world. No matter where you live, regardless of your race, religion, occupation, social status, identity, and the income differences, food and protection are needed; also sickness and death are inevitable. The young have schools to attend, the poor have houses to live in, the public have the preferable means of transportation to take, the youth have causes to attend, the sick have health care to take care of, the senior have companies around; these are also the basic features of social justice. We call it "unity."

The purpose of the public services, in essence, derived from social justice and human rights, built on the basis of certain social consensus, aims to ensure that all the citizens of a country have fair and universal access to public services. From the perspective of public service delivery, public services mean those who do not pursue for profit (not to maximize profits purpose), but effectively encourage fairness, promote the rational allocation, coordinate the regulation of public interest. From the perspective of public service recipients, public service is a basic model for citizens to express and realize their basic rights and common interests; it is also the basic guarantee for non-discriminatory safeguard of the basic rights of citizens and for maintaining social fairness and justice.

At present, in China we usually refer to the general public services as:

①    Basic public services (water, electricity, gas, transportation and other public utilities, infrastructure, etc.)

②    Economic public services (institution supply, macro-control, information dissemination, regulation and supervision, etc.)

③    Social public services (employment, social security, science and technology, culture, education, health, sports, environmental protection, etc.)

④    Public safety-type services (defence, police, fire, etc.)

 

Reporter: Thank you very much. We are very pleased to note that Mr. Pierre Bauby recently lead a research on the development of public service in Europe. We would like to know the role that public services play in European social development. Could you please describe it from the perspectives of public services providers’ direct contribution to European GDP, of the number of employees and enterprises in the fields of public services and of the investment from community?

 

Pierre Bauby: First, we concluded the research on European public services and we have made a “mapping” of public services within the 27 EU Member States. The first part of this research we directed indicates the different meanings of the concept of “public services” in Europe, and the general situation of their organizations. There has been completed statistics as to the data of employees of public services in Europe, yet the global data remains unclear. Currently, there are 500 million people in Europe and about 250 million employees, of which 30% are engaged in public services. In 2006, public services sectors contributed 26% to the GDP in European level. Currently, there are 500,000 enterprises engaged in energy, transportation, postal and telecommunications industries in Europe. The investments in these public services represent 15 billion euros in whole EU-27. These data show that public services sectors in Europe play an important socio-economic role and they enhance Europe's international competitiveness. Though these data represent minimum estimations; the real data could be higher.

 

Reporter: Are there similar data on European public services in China? And I would also like to ask Professor Chen about the current situations of Chinese public services and their level of development. What are the progressive phase characteristics? What major achievements were made?

 

Professor Chen Guang: Public services delivery benchmarks, which are not only in the sense of the basic human rights and moral requirements, but also based on an overall socio-economic development level. “Should be provided” and “are able to provide” are two different concepts. China's per capita GDP in 2009 is just over three thousand U.S. dollars, which indicates the middle-income stage of development to the growing gap between the rich and the poor. To maintain its economic and social stability, basic social justice and cohesion, protection of individual fundamental rights to life and prosperity, “basic public services” delivery must be ensured, including the safeguarding of social aid, pension protection, basic education, public health, culture, employment and re-employment, sound environment, public infrastructure, etc. China’s public infrastructure, basic education and rural cooperative medical care have made great achievements. However, there is a long way to go to realize the equalization of basic public services between East and West, between urban and rural areas and between different income groups. Chengdu, for example, needs 10 years to achieve the equalization of basic public services.

 

Europe: diversity of public services

 

Reporter: Through the introduction of public services by the two sides, we see that the development of public services needs further research. Of course, we also hope that Professor Chen will lead his team to continue to conduct an in-depth study on this issue. Now I would like to ask the EU experts what are the organization, management and regulation methods of public services?

 

Mihaela Similie: With regard to entities of public services, the situation is diverse in the EU countries. Public services such as education, health or police are mainly delivered by the public sectors. The EU Member States have national, regional and local levels of public service delivery, and many public services are still delivered by national public enterprises. The nationalization of public services was a common feature in Europe after the Second World War, and today public services such as post, rail and air transportation in some countries are mainly delivered by state-owned enterprises. In the Eastern European countries after the disintegration of Eastern Europe in the late 1980s and the early stage of 1990s, the so-called “all public” model disappeared. The third form of management of public services is local autonomy, developed in Europe in the last 150 years. This model also includes public and private cooperation, mainly in three forms: delegation and externalization and public-private partnerships. Among them, public-private partnerships (PPPs) is a New Public Management idea. I would also like to mention the form of public cooperation between local authorities providing public services to meet local public demands. In terms of economic public service, we saw in the last 25 years the establishment of regulatory agencies to ensure effective competition. In some countries they accompany, for example, the consumers’ protection agencies, that could exist both at national level and industry level.

 

Public Service: Serving Vulnerable Groups

 

Reporter: Thanks for Miss Mihaela’s introduction. As a common citizen, we are very concerned about how to ensure public services for citizens, especially for social vulnerable groups, rather than a tool for accumulating wealth for those service agencies? Let’s invite Professor Chen to share his own views.

 

Professor Chen Guang: Delivering basic public services for the public, especially for the vulnerable groups is the government's basic responsibility and important commitments. There are three aspects of basic public services. Firstly, it emphasizes the government’s role as the main subject of provision of basic public services. Secondly, it emphasizes that the basic public services refer to those most close to the people's needs. Thirdly, basic public services should have a reasonable model of governance. In general, the governance consists of three aspects: public participation, transparency and accountability. Public participation ensures that citizens have the right to express in the process of public service, including to express their demands for services and to participate in the evaluation of the results of the service. Transparency ensures that citizens can understand public service policies, process and outcomes and avoid information asymmetry. And accountability requires that public service providers are responsible for the results of public services.

 

In addition, to ensure that public services benefit the public, government must convert the concept of performance and shift GDP-performance-oriented to GDP-service-oriented, from the social utility management to public services. Strengthening the supervision and control of public service delivery process, the government should represent citizens and monitor the delivery and production of public services instead of being captured by a few interest groups.

 

Government and Market: Cooperative Delivery of Public Services

 

Reporter: The development of public administration seems always confronted with the problem-finding and problem-solving process. In the EU, public services are already highly developed. Therefore, I would like to ask Mr. Pierre Bauby, what are the trends of development of the public services in Europe?

 

Pierre Bauby: Yes, even if the European public services are developed to a higher level, there are still many problems to be solved. Now the European countries are trying to find solutions to national problems. I would like to discuss the solutions from a practical sense.

 

As we know, market failure and government failure are not uncommon; therefore, government and market should cooperate to solve public service related problems, to combine the advantages of both sides, to participate in the competition while taking care of public interests. For the general concept, I want to explain further.

 

First of all, as far as the organizing authority is concerned, we need local, and national governments or even the entire EU to develop the legal framework and policies to address the common problems we are facing. This is a serious problem that requires authorities and stakeholders to work together. As Professor Chen just noted, the provision of public services need public participation and information disclosure. Public services’ ways of delivery need to be chosen. They may be delivered by the State, social organizations or the private sector. In particular, if we have to build pipelines in the city, such as energy networks, or to build subways, these could be done by Governments or by certain private enterprises. Another problem is that, as mentioned above, service provision is directly managed by the Governments or by delegated operators? All in all, public services can not become a symbol of bureaucracy, but they should meet the needs of the public, so that people truly enjoy the satisfaction of public services delivery. This requires us to consider that public service has to meet the higher authorities’ requirements or the general public demand. We should have some articles written on different sectors such as education, transport, etc., based on the historical development of different national rules and regulations adopted to regulate the effective delivery of public services.

 

Public Service: The Main Responsibility of Chinese Government

 

Reporter: Thank you for you concise precision. As for China, considering its economic sustained high development, various kinds of social contradictions are constantly accumulating. Let’s invite Professor Chen to talk about why the great achievements China has made not reduce but rather reinforce the social management and public service problems.

 

Professor Chen Guang: It is no doubt that China's last 30 years of reforms and opening up has made tremendous achievements. However, we can still find that there are a lot of problems in employment, social security, income distribution, education, health, residential housing, work safety, justice and public security. Some of us are even confused: Why the huge economic success not reduce but seems to have worsened social management and public services problems?

 

As we step into the 21st century, the increasingly prominent social contradictions, conflicts and disturbing moral dilemma show itself in essence as the principal contradiction has changed to the public's growing demand for public goods and public services, with public goods supply deficiency, uneven development of public services, and unfair delivery of public services. In other words, we believe that public service’s “deficiency, inequality and injustice” are the current major social and management issues.

 

That is why the Chinese government takes “public service” as one of the Government's four main functions (the other three functions are market supervision, economic regulation and social management). In reality, the deficient and non-comprehensive public service provision model, the coverage area of public services and services’ effectiveness will still be China’s long-term challenge facing all levels of governments.

 

We spent 30 years to establish a market economy. China’s next 30 years development will depend on our social management and public service achievements.

 

Reporter: Thank you, Professor Chen. The final question for Mr. Pierre Bauby, you have participated in the last two China-Europa Forums. What are your expectations for this coming Forum?

 

Pierre Bauby: I have attended the previous two forums, in both the workshop on public services. The third Forum just begins; it will bring a lot of discussions and a new method for dialogue. Firstly, we have more time to communicate with each other and for mutual understanding. Secondly, public service problems and challenges to be discussed in this Forum will be much more extensive. Thirdly, China and the EU are currently in different situation, Europe is in a financial, economic and social crisis, while China is still in a development stage. Our Forum will discuss a number of public service issues, and put the problems of public services on the Forum’s agenda, will deepen and try to reveal solutions to solve them, to analyse the positive role of public services in the context of the financial crisis in Europe and the problems China facing in the context of development. I believe that the China-EU cooperation on public services will have further chances and sound development.

 

Reporter:  What’s your opinion on the same issue, Ms. Mihaela?

 

Mihaela Similie: I am pleased to be here. In fact I have already participated in the preparation of this China-Europa Forum, and the changes in China have already made a deep impression on me. This Forum is an excellent opportunity to learn more about the history, evolution and current status of public services in China. As Professor Chen mentioned, some problems that public services are facing in China are also very common in Europe and we cannot find a permanent answer to solve them. As we know, the development of public services in Europe has a long history, but that does not mean that in all countries they acquired the same stage of development. I am very glad for having this opportunity to participate in the Forum, and to discuss the common challenges facing the public services both in the EU and in China together with Professor Chen and other European and Chinese experts.

 

Reporter: Thanks to EU experts for their presentations. Finally, I would like to ask Professor Chen, after you have read the materials on EU-27 basic public services, what would it be from your point of view the enlightenments that China could obtain from European public service organizations, management and regulation?

 

Professor Chen Guang: European public services, particularly the system of public services in Northern European countries, the European basic consensus on concepts, service standards, organizational structure, management policies, market opening and regulatory rules are significant for China and its current developments.

Firstly, I would like to mention the advanced public service concept in Europe. In Europe, there is a concept called “Services of general interest”- SGIs - which refers to economic and non economic services which the public authorities class as being of general interest and subject to specific public service obligations, regardless who the provision subjects are and no matter what are the ways of delivery. Meeting the general interest is the basic function of public services. The research “Mapping of the public services in Europe” not only makes a quantitative description of public services contribution in GDP, but also emphasize public services’ “positive externalities”. SGIs bring solidarity and optimization of redistribution at different social, intergenerational, regional levels, and in considerably upgrading EU’s competiveness. Similarly, we also believe that good public services ensure a truly harmonious development of society and represent an important foundation for the future.

 

Secondly, the governance model of public services in Europe. In Europe, not only that we can find the consensus in the basic concept, standards, services content of public services attendant with European integration, but also we find the diversity of public services in different regions and different countries. There are also a variety of governance approaches, including the model of public administrations and national companies, “All public” model, local autonomy, delegated management and externalization, New Public Management and regulatory agencies, etc., As to public service delivery, the general trend is to gradually reduce the public sector's direct intervention, to encourage the participation of private sector and the social forces, to establish partnerships with non-profit organizations, to implement strict and professional public services regulation by laws, and to carry out wider scope of social dialogue, etc. All these are important enlightenments for China’s current development.

 

Reporter: Tonight’s China-EU scholar media dialogue on public service made more clearly for all of us the history of Sino-European public services, their current situation, problems and challenges. Thanks our China-EU scholars’ for their elaborate and profound discussion. I hope we will have follow-up opportunities to discuss the developments of public service in China and in Europe. We have to stop here, thank you for coming.