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栗 子:性相模糊的阿修罗

(2010-11-09 15:43:04)
标签:

访谈

分类: 《艺术经纬》No.10

栗 子:性相模糊的阿修罗

性相模糊的阿修罗 

UNDISTINGUISHABLE GENDER'S ASHURA

 

瘦骨嶙峋,痛苦却又沉迷其间,无性别的人物是栗子作品给我的第一印象。她经常穿着一身黑色宽大的长裙,访谈中发现她果然是个灵异直觉很高的女子,阿修罗、撒旦、无界限的爱,欲望与性别……如果爱能真正主宰世间的情感,我们是否可以发现通往幸福自由的天道。

The characters of Lizi’s works are thin, sad and indulgeing in it and have no gender. That is my first impression. She often wear black and loose skirt. From interviewing her I found that she of cause is high instinct about the soul women. Asura, Satan, unlimited love, desire and gender…… If love can control the feeling in the world, if we can find the happy and free way of heaven.

 

 

即使是个阿修罗我也甘愿
I Would Like to be Ashura

 
每个人童年的生活经验,特别是童年和青少年时期的经历对他一生的影响是至关重要的。能否谈谈你童年的生活经验?
In terms of psychology, a person’s early life experience, especially the life during the  childhood and teenager,  has great influence on him or her. Can you talk about your early life experience?
我小时候身体不好,我五岁的时候进了省游泳队。可是我不会是一个好的运动员啊,我只是为了锻炼身体,并不是希望能比赛得奖牌之类的,因为我并不喜欢竞争很激烈的环境,那让我很紧张,我还是喜欢自我挑战性的事情,好像绘画就是。我小时候非常喜欢画画我觉得超过了任何事情,我记得我4岁的时候曾经对我父母说,给我一支笔一摞纸我可以自己玩一天。我当时画了很多画每天都画,是有故事情节的那种,但是我会故意把画的每张纸的顺序打乱或者有一个情节故意不画出来,因为我不希望别人能看懂。我有点不想让人家了解我在想什么。我小时候有很多业余爱好,我学过游泳,手风琴,钢琴,溜冰,绘画,但是我最终选择了绘画作为我的职业,我觉得非常幸运。
When I was child, I was in poor health. I took part in the swimming team of Hubei Province when I was five years old. My aim was just exercise not hope win the games. because I don’t like the competition environment, it make me feel nervous. I like do self-challenging things, painting seems to be such one. When I was a kid I like to draw very much and I feel I like it exceeding anything else. I remember I told my parents when I was 4 years old that if you give me a pen, I could enjoying myself one day. At that time, every day I was painting a lot of pictures which have story plot. But I deliberately disorder the paper or not to draw a plot, because I don’t expect others understand it. Somehow I do not want to let others know what I was thinking about. I had many hobbies, I studied swimming, accordion, piano, skating, painting. But at last I choose painting as my job and I am very luck.
 
听说你很喜欢宗教之类的东西,对玄学比较感兴趣对么?能说说你平时有哪些爱好么?
I heard that you like the religion. Are you interested metaphysics? Can you talk about your hobby?
是的,我觉得我是一个超敏感的人。对于一个地方或者陌生的环境我常常有一些异常的体验。我见过一些灵异事件。我亲身经历过所以我相信有这些灵异的东西存在。我喜欢看的书籍也是历史和宗教类的,我觉得非常有意思。我的灵异体验可能不仅仅是大学就有了,在高中的时候就开始了。我准确的预测了班上一些同学考上大学,而有些没有考上。但是我现在不预测什么了,因为我觉得对我的生活有影响。我平时的生活基本就是绘画,我觉得很开心,累的时候喜欢看看宗教和神秘学方面的书籍,我也很喜欢唱歌,我灌录过自己的唱片,私人灌录的。我送给很多朋友听。他们都很喜欢。
I think I am a super sensitive person. For a place or a strange environment I often have some unusual experience. I have seen some supernatural events. I believe such things existing as I experienced presonally. I also like to read historical and religious books and I find it is very interesting. My suprenatural experience began when I was in high school but not only when I was in university. I predicated accurately some would be admitted to the university and some not among my classmates. But I do not predict anything, because I think it would effect my life. My life basicly is painting, I feel happy. When I tired, I like reading religion and occultism books. I also like sing, I transcribed my cd and sent them my friends. They like them.

 

栗 子:性相模糊的阿修罗


最近你在上海的个展名字叫“阿修罗”。你认为阿修罗是什么?
Laterly  you call your solo exhibition “Asura”,what do you think Asura?
这个问题很好,我一直想写篇关于阿修罗的文章,但是我很懒像一阵子搁下就忘了。我觉得阿修罗是非常有意思的物质。在佛教中阿修罗道是非常诡异的,是有进无回的道,佛教中的六道为一;天道、二;人道、三;阿修罗、四;畜牲道、五;饿鬼道、六;地狱道。也就是说当进入了阿修罗道就很难进入别的道了。但是阿修罗道又不是同于天道和人道,他其实是融入其他五道的,唯有地狱道是没有阿修罗的,也就是说除了地狱道其他每个道都有阿修罗的存在,那么阿修罗是怎么样的呢?有些佛学的书中形容男子相貌非常丑陋,身形怪异。女子个个貌美如花,让人一看就丢魂失魄,所以天人也要羡慕其道的女子。天道的神变为阿修罗就是因为他失了德行,也就是说是被贬入阿修罗道的。阿修罗道众生,生活无忧,可与天人媲美,但是该道众生虽然有享不尽的美食却不知道其美味,他们进食就像鱼吃食一样,是不知道味道的。众生个个性情暴燥,动则刀剑相向,争凶斗狠。但是他们不会被杀死,死后会复活,活了再打,自相残杀,无休无止。但是觉得阿修罗有一种永不妥协的气质,和非常理想化的性格,所以他们会永不停息的坚持自我,反而我认为这是一个艺术家该有的品质。所以有时候我在想艺术家就是阿修罗,而真正的天道又有几个人能达到而进入呢?甚至不让我去向往。我觉得即使我是个阿修罗我也甘愿,至少我能坚持自我。我没有认为阿修罗有什么不好。
This is a good question and I have always wanted to write an article on Ashura, but I am so lazy that I would forget in a while. I think Ashura is a very interesting material.In buddhism, the Dao of Ashura is very strange, which is only advance and never retreat, the six Dao in Buddhism are: Heaven,  Humanity, Asura, Beast, Hungry ghosts, Hell. That is, once one joines the Asura’s Dao, it is very difficult to join other Dao. But Asura’Dao is different from the Dao of Heaven and Humanity, actually  it can integrate into other five Dao except Hell Dao. In other words, Asura Dao is existing in every other five Dao except Hell Dao.Then, how about does Asura look like? Men is described very ugly and weird physique in some Buddism books. Women are all beautiful, losing one’s soul to have a look at, so even if one comes from the heaven also admire the women from Asura Dao. Gods from Heaven Dao become Asura just because them lost their virtue, that is, to be demoted into Asura Dao. Asura raise human beings, who live naively and can compare with the Heaven. Though they have the untold delicacy,  they can not enjoy delicious food as they eat just like that of fish, which does not enjoy the delicious food.  All of the living beings having irritable temperament,  are liable to taking out the sword to fight fiercely.However, I  believe this is a uncompromising temperament and very idealistic character of Asura, they will adhere to themselves without ceasing, and I think this is the quality which the artists should process. So sometimes I think that the artist is Aaura, but how many in the real Heaven Dao could reach and access to? Even if not let me to long for. I believe that I am willing to be him even if  I am Asura, at least, I can insist on myself. And I do not think there is anything wrong of Asura.
 
他们生活的好激烈啊,您平时生活或者创作的状态也是这般激烈么?
Their lives are acute . Are your life and creation state acute?
我的创作状态非常轻松,一点也不激烈。我画画和玩一样,我很喜欢那种状态我觉得画画是我最快乐的时候呢!
I am at easy in my creation state and have no little acute. I paint likes I play. I like the state, I feel painting is my happy times.
 
您是从什么时候开始找到自己的内心所期望表达的内容的?
When did you find the contents which your expected to express in your heart?
我只能说是天生的,我高中的时候就画过一张两个人在水中接吻的创作,和我现在的作品是一样的题材,当然那时候不会有现在技法。但是很真诚。我喜欢表现很自我的东西。我觉得表现我的内心也是在表现所有人的内心情感,因为人和人都是相通的。所以我从大学一年级我都盼望着有一天我可以画出我自己内心的形象和故事。直到大学毕业时候我画的毕业创作,大家觉得好奇怪好有自己的风格而我觉得那就是我要表达的。我从小就要表达的。
What I can say that it’s natural. When I was in high school, I drew a picture of two kissing in the water, this topic is the same as that of present work, of course, at that time there were not  the same skill as that of now, but it was very sincere. I like something to show oneself and I believe to my feeling also reflect all people’s feeling, as people are all interlinked. So from the freshman I expect I can express the image and story in my heart someday. Till graduation everyone feel curious of my painting with my own style obviously, but I think that is just what I want to express from I was a child.
 
你的作品都在表达一种超脱的情感,你能谈谈你怎么看待爱这个问题么?
You express a unconventional feeling in your works, can you talk about the problem of love?
性,性别,身份,身体之间我认为有一个东西联系,那就是爱。决定性的是爱,因为没有爱就没有性的冲动。所以性别和身体以及身份都不是爱或者不爱的问题,因为爱是宽泛的。不见得只有男人爱女人或者女人爱男人这样。我认为爱是超越任何界限的。我认为爱是没有性别,没有种族,没有身份地位的区别,更甚至没有物种的分别。爱是无边界的。性别的同或者不同不能助长或者消灭爱的深度。身体和身份就更不能左右爱的深度了。
I think that sex, gender, identity and body are linked by something,and this is love. It is love that  determine sex, because there will no sex impulsion without love. Therefore, gender,body and identity aren’t love or not love,because love is extensive and not to limit man love woman or woman love man. I think love is beyond any boundary and for love regardless of gender, race, difference of status, even species. Love is boundless. Difference of gender can not promote or eliminate the depth of love. Nor can body and identity determine the depth of love.
 

栗 子:性相模糊的阿修罗


从你的作品中我们好像很难分辨出男性与女性,人物的性征被模糊,省略乳房,瘦骨嶙峋的人物形象是你展现痛苦、表现“创伤”、模糊性别的符号吗?
In your work, we can not distinguish the binary opposition of male and female. Are the portrait with obscure sexuality, omittance the breast, skinny characters the symbol to show the pain and “trauma” and confuse gender?
因为我画的是灵魂,我觉得灵魂是没有性别的,也就是说一个男人也会有一个女性化的灵魂。当然灵魂一定是痛苦的,因为他刚刚经过了一次死的磨练。所以我认为灵魂是没有性别没有种族没有重量的物质,所以在我的作品是非常瘦弱的形象,也非常令人怜爱。但是我的作品表现的那种痛苦也是一种隐性的痛楚,而不是马上立刻能让人感受到的痛苦,是一种由表及里,慢慢渗透式的痛。我想表现的就是这样的东西。而这种痛苦的原因我想还是在感情的体验上。这是一个人从小到大的感情经历中所得到的一些东西的总结。我想我之所以不同于其他人就是我能把这样的细腻情感反映到我的每张作品中。
Because I painted a soul, I think it has not gender. That is, a man would have a feminized soul. Of course the soul is sad for experience a dead. So I think the soul has not gender and ethics and lightless material. So in my works it is a soft and lovely image. But the pain displayed in my work is also the hidden pain other than the pain which can be felt immediately,which proceeds from the exterior to the interior and infiltrates slowly. What I would like to show is just such things. I think that the reason of this pain is experienced by the emotion.This is a summary for the feeling experience, man and body. I think the reson that I do different from the other person is that I can express such fine feeling in each of my work.
 
我们可以在你的作品中发现那种超越二元框架下的性别情欲的状态,它摆脱了异性恋构建的情欲的乌托邦概念。这是否是一种超越世间个体之爱的生命体验呢?
In your works  we could read a erotic feeling  state beyond the binary frame, which got rid of the erotic Utopia concept based on the heterosexual construct. Whether is this a kind of life experience beyond the world individual love?
我觉得我的创作中更多是在讲述那种无欲的爱。我觉得很有意思,爱是否是应该带有欲望?无欲是否也可以深爱?所以我的作品中会出现无性别的灵魂相互抚摸和亲密,但是却没有可能有更深层次的身体交流,这个抑或是一种痛苦?精神上的爱是否无法在身体交流中实现欲望而使观者或本人更痛苦呢?所以我的作品会给观看的人又一种隐隐的痛楚,明明画面中的人很享受的亲密却让观看的人感受到痛苦,这个就是我想达到的,这是很有趣的体验,我一直想表达这样的东西。
I think more no-desire love are narrating in my creating. It is interesting. If the love should be have desire ?  If a person without desire can love deeply? So no-gender souls petting and intimating each other would be shown in my works, but they have no body contact deeply. Maybe that is a sad ? It made readers  or they more sad for the thing that they have mental love and can not get their desire though body contact. So my works can bring readers a faint sad. The people are painted enjoy the close clearly but let readers feel sad. That is something I want to express. It is a interesting experience and it is what I express.
 
你曾经在手记中写到过你对同性之爱的理解,但我发现你最近经常谈到的是自恋。你能解释一下你对同性之爱和自恋的理解吗?
Did you once write that your understanding about the same sex love in your handwriting note? But I found you often talked about the narcissism lately. Can you explain your understand about two above?
我很喜欢研究同性恋的心理。或者说我研究自恋型的同性恋。因为同性恋会有很多种,其中最重要的也是我很喜欢研究的就是自恋型心理的同性恋者。我觉得这一点非常有意思,就好像我以前有举过一个例子:比如说,一个女人她喜欢女生,不喜欢男生,那么她会否喜欢长的像男生一样的女生呢?我相信答案是否定的,那么她是喜欢像自己一样的女生。因此就和我们传统意义上理解的同性恋非常不一样。因为传统中我们还是会把同性恋当做通常生活中的夫妻状态去理解,一个偏于男性化一个偏于女性化。但事实你看到真正的自恋型心理的同性恋会很出乎你的意料,因为你在他们的外貌特点中看不出谁偏于男性或者女性。其实我感兴趣的就是这一种类型。那么我觉得这就是同性恋的起因,同性恋就是缘于对自我的迷恋,这包括了身体。所以我觉得同性恋和自恋是相互联系的。而我的作品中就是在探讨这样的情感。
I like study the buggers’s psychology or the narcissistic homoerotism. The homoerotism have many kinds. The important is what I like later. I think it is very interesting. I once took an example like this: for example, one woman like a girl student, don’t like a boy student. Do you think she would like the girl student who look like a boy student? I believe the answer is no. She like the girl student like herself. It different from the homoerotism which is understood by people traditionally. Because we regard the homoerotism as couple state daily to understand traditionally, which one emphasize masculinization and other feminization. In fact , when you see the real narcissistic homoerotism , they would be out of your expect. Because you don’t see who is masculinization and who is feminization from in person factors. That is the mode I am interested. So I think that is  the origin of homoerotism and it  origin from that they crazy about themselves including their body. I think the homoerotism and narcissistic have relation each other. That is what I study the feeling.

 

栗 子:性相模糊的阿修罗

 


最近画中人物的眼睛睁开了
The Figures of Paintings Eyes are Open at Present

 
你作品中的人物形象经常是闭着眼睛,最近你说,你的人物眼睛都睁开了。对于你的内心来说,这是怎样一种转变呢?
The figures often close their eyes in your painting  and you said the figures open their eyes lately. In terms of your inner heart, is it a transfrom?
我曾经在想撒旦是怎么样的形象,我觉得在我心中不会是传统意义上的凶神恶煞的样子。在我心中我会认为她是一个清瘦毫不染尘的样子,没有性别因为她是魔鬼。毫不染尘因为她曾经是天使。她为什么要报复世界,因为她睁开了眼睛看到了她不想看到的人类丑恶。这就是我为什么现在要画睁开双眼的人。他们对世界很失望因为她们看到了本不应看到的东西。我极力想在作品中表现出那种已经无力绝望的眼神。因为世间丑陋已经让我无力去推翻,只有去努力的接受和适应,其实我内心是不愿意接受的。所以只有在绘画中表现,而我却选择了一双眼睛去表现这些,所以非常困难,但又很特别。
I had thought what is the image of Satan. I think she is not fierce traditionally  in my mind. She is thin and pure in my mind. Because she is ghost, she has no sex . she was said pure because she was an angel once. Why does she retaliate the world? Because she open her eyes to see human kind’s ugly, which is she doesn’t want to see. That is why I paint open-eyes’s figure. What let them down is they see something that they don’t want to see. I struggle to express their weak and despairing eyes in my works. I don’t have ability to overture the ugly world and I just can struggle to accept and adapt it. In fact, I am not willing to accept it in my mind. So I just express it in my painting and I choice an  eyes to show. It is very difficult and special.
 
你曾经描述过自己的作品带有某种女性气质,你能谈谈你对女性气质的理解吗?
You had narrated once some kind femininity in your works, can you talk about your understanding?
女性气质是一个中性词,不属于男性或女性。也就是说男性也可以有女性气质。这个概念也可以延伸到另一个词语“女性艺术”我觉得应该改为“女性化艺术”因为是个中性词,也就是什么人的艺术作品都可以透露出女性化的倾向,也可能女性艺术家的作品没有这样的倾向。而我的作品就有女性化倾向。但不是只有女性才有女性化倾向这样的特权。
Femininity is a neutral word, it is not  belong to the man or the woman. In another words, a man can has the femininity. The concept can extend another word “ woman art”. I think it should be changed “feminization art.” Because it is a neutral word,  anybody’s artworks can reveal the feminization tendency. Maybe the works of woman artist have not the tend. But my works will have the tendency. But only women can have the priviege of feminization tendency.
 
最近你的表现手法开始转向多元化,雕塑、摄影、舞剧……能具体谈一下你下一步的创作计划吗?
Your start transfer diverse technique of expression lately, sculpture, photograph, dance drama…… could you tell me your  next plan ?
我现在在做一个40分钟的舞剧,叫《阿修罗》一共有4幕。我现在正做后期,我相信会非常精彩。很希望以后在剧场中演绎出来。我觉得非常有意思,是我艺术思想的另外一种延伸。艺术手法多元化其实就会让自己的思路更开阔。我觉得艺术家表现作品不应该有材料上的顾及。很多人认为艺术家要时常转变风格,我觉得这个想法不对,风格可能永远无法改变因为你有这样的个性所以你才有这样的风格,但是你的图式可能会改变,你的艺术表现形式可以改变,也就是你可以通过更复杂更丰富的手法实现你的艺术风格。而不见得是单一的摄影、装置、雕塑。还可以更综合,当然必须是你自己可以把握的艺术表现形式。
I do a 40-minute dance drama now, and the name is Ashura. It has four acts. I nearly finish it now. I believe it will wonderful. I hope it can be played on theater. I think it is very interesting. It is another extend of my art thought. Diverse  technique of expression can let my thinking more open. I think artists should not consider the material in expressing works. Many people think artist should often transform style. I don’t think so.  The style has never changed because style  depend on your personality. But your schema would be changed and your art expression form can be changed. That is, you achieve your art style through more complicated and rich technique and not  single photograph, installment ,sculpture.  You can  synthesize the technique and  control art expression form.

 

栗 子:性相模糊的阿修罗

 

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