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曹丹专访

(2012-12-18 15:55:50)
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龙船

杂谈

分类: 媒体报道


JM: I believe you are an artist and designer as well as a film maker – how did you get into documentary making?

我知道你是艺术家,设计师,同时也拍片。你是怎样涉及纪录片拍摄的?


CD: In 1997 I was still working as a designer, and was invited to a documentary conference by a private organisation. They invited a lot of internationally quite famous documentary makers and showed their films. When I attended the conference I was very moved by the medium, and it struck me that this was the kind of medium that I wanted to work with, which I thought would be the perfect way for me to express myself.

1997年我还在做设计师的时候,被一个私人机构邀请参加一个纪录片研讨会。他们请了很多国际著名的纪录片导演,并且放了他们的片子。参加研讨会时我被这种媒介打动了,而且意识到这是我想用来创作的媒介,是很完美的表达自我的方式。


After the conference I got very interested, but because at that time there weren’t any documentary courses provided by most Chinese film academies, I had to find all the literature myself. At that time I also had only very limited access to documentary films, so it was more like finding my way through my own research.

参加完研讨会后我产生了很大的兴趣,但因为当时没有任何中国电影学院开纪录片的课程,我得自己找书看。那时候我能接触到的纪录片也很少,所以基本上是自己摸索。


JM: For you, how does your documentary making compare with your art, and do you see them as separate?

你如何比较纪录片和艺术创作,对你来说这两者是否是独立的?


CD: I think the main 3 things I have are my own designing, my painting and working with different kinds of paper art, and of course my work as a film maker. The processes are similar, though they have different interactions with different mediums. With documentaries, this is mainly being in contact with the world around and with what is going on in society, so there is more interaction with the public. The design work is more in contact with businesses. With my painting and art works it’s more like self-exploration into myself.

我觉得我主要从事的有三种创作,我的设计,我的画和与不同形式的纸艺术,另外当然就有拍片。这些过程都是相似的,但它们和不同的媒介有不同的互动。纪录片的拍摄主要是和我周围的世界的联系,社会上发生的事情,因此和公众有更多的互动。设计工作主要是和商业打交道。画画和艺术创作就更多是对我自身的探索。


JM: You divide your time between France and China – does this give you a different perspective on China, and when you are planning projects?

你在法国和中国生活工作,这是令你从不同的交待看待中国和策划项目?


CD: Yes, it definitely affects my perspective. I left China and went to France, and then went back to China again, and although I’m in the place I grew up, because of the time away I feel distance from this place and the people and that gives me a different position to see things from, and has definitely changed my perspective.

是的,这肯定影响了我的角度。我离开中国去了法国,然后又回到中国,虽然我还是在我出生的地方,因为离开了一段时间我会感到和这个地方和这里的人的距离,这令我从一个不同的位置去看问题,肯定是改变了我的角度的。


JM: What inspired you to make Dragon Boat?

是什么触动了你拍《龙船》的?


CD: It was in the year 2001, I happened to be working in Guangzhou, and was visiting my mother’s home in the area where the village is. I was carrying my video camera around like a notebook and filming everything, and I happened to film the scene with the villagers burying the dragon boat. After I shot this footage, I really got very interested, as I’m interested in Chinese folk culture and traditions, and so it was from this I decided to follow and film, though I had no idea then what was going to happen.

那是在2001年,我刚好在广州工作。我去看我妈妈,她就住在片中的村子那里。我当时像带笔记本一样带着摄像机,什么都拍,刚好就拍到了片中沉龙舟的一幕。拍了这一段素材后,我开始真正产生兴趣,因为我对中国民俗和传统很感兴趣。所以从那时我决定跟踪拍摄,虽然当时我完全不知道会发生什么。


When I was filming the burying of the boat, two of the people became very acquainted with me, and we became friends, I would visit them often to catch up, talking about their lives. In this village, the population was made of two main professions, one being farmers and the other fishermen. Both of these men were fishermen, and by becoming a kind of family with them, this is how I got access to the village.

我在拍沉龙舟的时候,其中两个人和我开始变得很熟,我们成了朋友。我会时不时去探探他们,和他们聊聊他们的生活。在这个村里的人主要是从事两种职业的,一种是农民,一种是渔民。他们两个都是渔民,因为和他们变得好像家人一样,我可以拍摄到这个村庄。


JM: I believe you started filming in 2001. How long did the shoot eventually last, and how many hours of footage did you end up with?

我相信你是从2001年开始拍的。你拍了多久,最后拍了多少小时的素材?


CD: 10 years in making the films and 100 hours footage.

拍了十年,一百个小时的素材。


JM: That’s a lot of footage to cut down to an hour and a half!

那么多素材剪出一个半小时的片子!


CD: At the beginning I did the filming by myself, but after 2009 I decided that the film needed closure, so brought in more people. From then I had another cameraman, so 2 cameras were shooting, and that’s why there was so much footage in the end.

开始我是自己拍,但2009年后我决定这个片子需要结局了,所以我请了其他的人。从那以后我有了另一个摄像师,所以有两台机器拍摄,最后也才有了这么多的素材。


JM: Over such a long shoot, how structured was the film? – did you spend a lot of time just turning up and filming, or did you specifically plan in advance to shoot certain things?

这么长的拍摄周期,你是如何计划这部影片的?你是花了很多时间实际拍摄,还是实现计划好了去拍一定的东西?


CD: Before 2008, mostly I just filmed whatever I saw when I went back to China to visit. It was by 2007 that the whole village had been transformed into the tourist resort, and I found this quite bizarre, a very strange result for how everything had turned out, and I thought it would be a pretty good way to end the film. From that time I decided to start planning things more, for example filming the villagers going back to their ancestral hall. After 2008 I had a much more detailed plan.

2008年之前我大多只是在回中国探望他们的时候拍摄。是在2007年那年整个村子被改造成了一个旅游景点,我觉得这很怪异,在经历了所有事情之后一个很奇怪的结局,我觉得这会是很好的收尾的方式。从那以后我开始有计划的拍摄,例如拍村民们回祠堂。2008年后就是更有计划的拍摄了。


JM: The film does feel more artistic and cinematic than a lot of other new Chinese independent documentaries, which have a gritty, down to earth look. Was this a conscious decision on your part, and do you think your also being an artist had an influence on the way the film was shot?

你的片子相对其他很多中国新独立纪录片更艺术化和电影化,那些片子会有更朴实的风格。这是你特别计划的还是因为你本身就是一个艺术家,从而影响了你的拍片风格?


CD: That’s mainly because I was brought up in an artist family and am an artist myself, so I’m very sensitive to the visual aspects of my films. I didn’t intentionally try to make it artistic, this is just my style.

那主要还是我出身于艺术世家,我自己也是搞艺术的,所以我对影片中视觉的方面非常敏感。我并没有特意拍得很艺术,我的风格就是如此。


JM: There are a lot of very strong imagery and visuals in the film, and there’s a real sense of contrast between the modern and the traditional – one of the images I always remember is the dragon boat sailing past the huge boat, as well as the burying of the boat. Was this contrast something you tried to capture?

你的片子中有很多视觉感很强的画面,而且也有一种很强烈的现代与传统的对比。其中一个我印象很深刻的就是龙舟和一条大轮船相遇的场景,还有沉龙船。你是否就是想捕捉这种对比?


CD: It was totally unplanned, as I couldn’t know in advance what route the boats would be taking. On that day I was there with my cameraman, and was very struck by it. There was no conscious effort to try and capture this contrast, in modern China it just exists, and you encounter it everywhere. With this scene, although it wasn’t set up, it seems much more dramatic than scenes in many Chinese fiction films.

那完全是个意外,因为我无法事先知道他们的船要走哪条路线。刚好那天我和我的摄影师在,我被那个场景打动了。我也没有刻意地去捕捉这种对比,在现代中国它本身就存在,你处处都会看见。这一幕虽然不是预先设计的,但似乎比很多中国剧情片里的场景还戏剧化。


The other scene you mentioned, with the burying of the boat, was also accidental, I just wanted to see what they were doing and put my camera there. I was quite surprised, and it was visually very striking, the men putting on the mud, slowly sinking. During the editing, I used some techniques to enhance this feeling, though the scene itself really did exist.

你提到的另一幕,就是沉船那一幕,也是意外拍到的。我只是想看看他们在干什么,然后就把机器摆在那里。我很惊讶,因为视觉上很震撼,那些人放进塘泥,慢慢下沉。在剪辑的时候我使用了一些技巧来加强这种感觉,但那一幕是真实存在的。


JM: Although the film deals with some subjects like land reclamation and government evictions, it comes across as balanced rather than angry or protest, and seems to be addressing change, rather than anything political?

你的片子虽然也涉及了土地征收,政府要求搬迁的内容,但片子整体感觉比较平衡,而不给人愤怒或示威的感觉,而且片子更多是讲这种变化,而不是设计政治?


CD: Last night, at the screening, one of the audience also asked this. My focus is more on tradition and folk culture, these are the main themes. I’m of course aware that many films in China now are about confrontation and protest. One of the reasons why my film feels less like protest is because of the village itself, each village’s situation is very different. In this village, the relocation was done rather smoothly, partly due to the background of the village. In each village there is one big family with the same surname, as well as smaller families – if the big family agrees to go, the smaller families will follow. In this village you may remember the party secretary, who was from the big family, and they were in control and were leading, when they agreed to go, the others followed according to procedure, so there wasn’t much trouble.

昨晚在放片的时候,有一个观众也问了这个问题。我更关注的是传统和民俗,这是主要的线索。我当然也知道现在中国有很多片子是对抗和示威的。我的片子比较少对抗的原因之一在于村子本身。每个村的情况都不同。在这个村子里,搬迁进行得比较顺利,部分原因就来自于这个村子的背景。每个村子都会有一家大姓,也有一些小姓村民。如果大姓同意搬的话,那些附庸的小姓通常也会跟随。这个村子里面,你可能还记得那个党委书记,他就是大姓家族的,而且也是村里掌权的领导。他们同意搬之后,其他的都按照程序搬了,所以没有太多麻烦。


I think it’s mentioned in the film that when the villagers look back now they do feel some regrets that they didn’t protest, as when other villages protested, the government compensation was much higher. This feeling of bitterness is getting stronger as the villagers now feel that they shouldn’t have been so obedient.

片子里面也有提到那些村民们事后也觉得很后悔他们没有反抗,因为其他反抗的村子后来政府给的补偿高很多。这种感觉现在越来越强,因为村民们觉得他们当时不应该那么听话的。


JM: In the film we see the village being turned into a folk tourist resort, which given that the villagers are trying to preserve their traditions is very ironic. Is this something that is happening a lot in China?

片子里面我们看到这个村被变成一个民俗旅游景点,而村民们却努力地区保护他们的传统,很具讽刺性。这种情况在中国是否很多?


CD: It’s true that this is happening a lot in China, with real estate companies buying a lot of land, buying whole villages which are developed into hotels or tourist attractions. Even if villagers are not forced off their own original land, a lot of villages are being transformed like this, and though the villagers still live there, the area exists mainly for tourism and for people to observe them. I don’t think this is a China specific issue though, and it is happening everywhere.

确实在中国有很多类似情况的发生,房地产公司买下很多土地,把整个村子买下来建酒店或旅游景点。即便村民们没被强迁走,很多村庄也被改造成这样。虽然那些村民仍然生活在那里,整个地方主要是作为旅游区让人参观的。当我不认为这是一个中国独有的现象,全球到处都有。


JM: Have you revisited the village since you finished filming?

你拍完之后有没有再去探过那个村子?


CD: I have revisited many times, recently this year I went back for the birthday of one of the villagers I got very close to. I go back to visit 2 of the families, and to say hello to all the other villagers too.

我回去过很多次,最近一次是今年其中一个和我很熟的村民生日。我通常会回去探望那两家人,也会和其他人打招呼。


JM: The film has screened at various festivals around the world – has it played a lot in China?

这部片在全球不同的电影节上放过,有没有在中国放过?


CD: My film has been touring around China through the organisation CNEX, and it has been screening a lot at universities. It was also shown at some screenings organised by consulates, like the German consulate. CNEX has its own festival in Taiwan, and it was shown there, and at a festival in Korea.

我的片子通过CNEX这个机构在中国巡演过,而且在很多大学里面也放过。还有就是一些领事馆组织的放映,例如德国领事馆。CNEX自己在台湾有一个电影节,在那里放了,然后就是在韩国的电影节上放过。


JM: Is there a growing audience in China for this kind of documentary film making?

在中国是否对这类纪录片感兴趣的观众有增加的趋势?


CD: I believe there is a certain group of audience for documentaries, and there are actual documentary television channels, by the central china television broadcaster, so there is definitely a lot of activity in this area. When I showed my film in universities, a lot of people turned up and were interested, even ordinary people who came along and wanted to talk about films and documentaries.

我相信纪录片是有一定观众群的,而且其实还有纪录片频道,中国的中央电视台开的,所以这个域的活动肯定是很多。我在大学放我的片子的时候来的人很多,他们也很感兴趣,就连普通观众也会来,而且也想讨论影片和纪录片。


Another aspect is that film makers in China don’t feel too offended by pirate DVDs as it shows how popular films are. I’m quite surprised that a few very difficult documentaries are turning up on pirate DVD, and I wonder who wants to buy and watch them! I knew from some resources that for pirate DVD sellers, and the minimum starting amount of copies they would make would be 3000, which means there must be a lot of people wanting to watch these films. There is definitely an audience looking for alternative and more artistic choices.

另一个方面是中国的导演们不是太介意盗版碟,如果被盗版了反而说明片子很受欢迎。我很惊讶有一些非常艰深的纪录片也能有盗版DVD卖,我当时想谁会看啊?而且我间接的了解到对做盗版碟的人来说,最少要做3000张,这就意味着看这些片的人还是很多的。绝对是有观众在寻求不同的更艺术的作品。


JM: Do you currently have any plans for future films or documentaries?

你目前有没有拍新片的计划?


CD: Yes, more of a personal documentary, I’ve been making a film about my father for the last 3-4 years, a sculptor who is now in his 70s and who is still making sculptures. This will be my next project, though I don’t know when I will finish it, I’m shooting each time when I go back home.

有,但是是一部更个人的纪录片,我过去三四年都在拍我的父亲,他是一个雕塑家,七十多岁了还在做雕塑。这是我下一个计划,虽然我不知道什么时候会完成。我每次回家都会拍一点。


JM: Sounds very interesting. Many thanks for your time, and good luck with all your projects.

听起来很有趣。非常感谢你抽时间接送我的采访,也祝你一切顺利。


Source引自:http://www.beyondhollywood.com/interview-documentary-filmmaker-cao-dan/

Translation: Jingjing Xie 译:谢晶晶)

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