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The Awakening of Intelligence-----2

(2009-04-15 15:24:59)
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杂谈

<<The Awakening of Intelligence>>(智慧的觉醒...334和335页)

 

[Are we related at all with another? Thought asserts that we are related, but actually we may not be, even though one human being may have an intimate, a sexual relationship with another.]

 

Unless one deeply understands the truth about relationship, it appears that human beings must inevitably end in sorrow, in confusion and in conflict. They may accept various forms of belief, or do social work, but all that has no value, unless they have established between themselves a relationship in which there is no conflict whatever. Is that possible? Can you and I be related? Perhaps you could have a very good relationship with me, because soon I am going away and then it is finished. Can there be a relationship between two human beings if each one is occupied with himself? - if each one is concerned with his own ambitions and worries, his opposition in the world and all the absurdity that human beings go through? When a human being is caught in that net, can he have any relationship with another?

除非一个人深刻地理解了关系的真相,否则看来人必然会最终处于悲哀,困惑与矛盾冲突之中。他们可能接受了各种形式的信仰,或做同样的社会工作,但那些都没有意义,除非他们双方之间建立了没有一丝冲突的真正的关系,才会有意义。那可能吗?你和我能有关系吗?可能你和我有着良好的关系,那是由于不久我就会离开,于是它就结束了。在两个各忙己事的人之间,能有关系吗?如果每个人都只关心他自己的企图心和所忧虑的,以及他世上的对手,关心人们正做的荒谬事,那么两个人能有关系吗?当一个人被那个网所网住,他能和别人有关系吗?

 

Please, follow all this. Can there be any relationship between a man and a woman when one is a Catholic and the other is a Protestant, when one is a Hindu and the other is a Buddhist?

请领会这点。当一人是天主教徒而另一人是新教徒,或一人是印度教徒而另一人是佛教徒时,在这一对男女之间能有任何关系吗?

 

What then is relationship? It seems to me that it is one of the most important things in life, because living is relationship. If there is no relationship, there is no living at all; then life merely becomes a series of conflicts, ending in separation or in divorce, in loneliness, with all the fears, anxieties, problems of attachment, and all the things that are involved in this sense of being completely isolated. I am sure you know all this. One observes how extraordinarily vital relationship is in life, and how very few human beings have broken down the barrier that exists between themselves and another. To break down this barrier with all implications - not just the physical barrier - one has to go deeply into this question of action.

那么,关系是什么?对我来说它是生命中最重要的事之一,因为生活就是关系。如果没有关系,就根本没有生活;于是生活变成仅仅是一系列的冲突,最终以分离或脱离为结局,变成孤独,其中带着所有的恐惧,焦虑,依附的问题,以及由于完全隔绝的感觉所引发的相关之事。我肯定你知道这些。一个人应当观察到在生命中关系是多么的重要,以及能摧毁他自己和别人之间的壁垒的人是多么的少。为了全面摧毁壁垒---不仅仅是物质意义上的壁垒---他不得不深入了解行动的问题。

 

What is action? Action is not future or past action, but acting. Is it the result of, a conclusion and acting according to that conclusion? Or is it based on some belief and acting according to the belief? Is it based on some experience and acting according to that experience or knowledge? If it is, then action is always in the past, our relationship is always in the past, never in the present.

什么是行动?行动不是将来或过去的行动,而是正在进行的行动。它是一个结论或根据那结论而行动所产生的结果吗?或它是建立在信仰和依信仰而做的行动上吗?它是建立在经验和根据那个经验或知识而做的行动上吗?如果是,那么行动总是属于过去的,我们的关系总是属于过去,从没属于现在过。

 

If I have a relationship with another - and relationship obviously is action - throughout the days, weeks or years of that relationship I have built an image and I act according to that image, and the other acts according to the image which he has; so the relationship is not between us but between these two images. Please do observe your own minds, your own activity in relationship, and you will soon find out the truth and validity of this statement. Our relationship is based on images, and how can there be a relationship with another, if it is merely the relationship of these images?

如果我和另一人有某种关系---关系明显地就是行动---通过长年累月的关系,我累积了一个意象,而且我根据那个意象行动,与此同时他人根据他累积的意象而行动;因此关系不是我们之间的,而是两个意象之间的关系。请确实去观察你自己的头脑,和在关系中你自己的行动,你将很快发现真相---这个陈述的正确性。我们之间的关系是建立在意象上的,那么,如果仅仅是在这些意象之间有关系,一个人怎么会和另一人有真正的关系?

 

I am concerned with having a relationship in which there is no conflict whatsoever, in which I am not using or exploiting another, either sexually, for reasons of pleasure, or for the sake of companionship. I see very clearly that conflict destroys any form of relationship, so I must resolve that conflict at the very centre, not at the periphery. And I can only put an end to conflict by understanding action, not only in relationship but in daily life. I want to find out if all my activities are isolating, in the sense that I have built a wall round myself; the wall being myself concerned with myself, with my future, my happiness, my health, my God, with my belief, my success, my misery - you follow? Or is it that relationship has nothing whatsoever to do with me or myself? Myself is the centre, and all the activities that are concerned with my happiness, my satisfaction, my glory must isolate. Where there is isolation there must be attachment and dependency; when there is uncertainty in that attachment and dependency then there is suffering, and suffering implies isolation in any relationship. I see all this very clearly, not verbally but actually - it is a fact.

我所关心的是没有一丝冲突的关系,在其中,无论是为了带来快感的性方面,还是为了有个伙伴,我都不利用和剥削别人。我看得很清楚,冲突摧毁了任何形式的关系,因此我必须就在正中心,而不是在外围,把冲突给解决掉。而且,我只能通过了解行动---那个不仅在关系中还在日常生活中的行动,使冲突结束。我要查明是否我的所有活动都是相互孤立的,在某种意义上讲,我建立了一个围绕自我的墙壁;这自我的墙壁很关心自己,关心我的未来,我的幸福,我的健康,我的神,我的信仰,我的成功,我的痛苦---你明白吗?或者说,那个关系是和我或我自己无关吗?我自己是中心,于是有关我的幸福,我的满意,我的荣耀等等的所有的活动必须与其他的隔离开。有隔离就会有依附和依赖;当在依附和依赖中存在着变幻不定时,痛苦就会存在,痛苦必然包含了关系中的隔离。我看得很清楚,不是言词上的而是实际看到的---那是个事实。

 

For many years I have built images about myself and about another; I have isolated myself through my activities, through my beliefs and so on. So my first question is - how am I to be free of these images? - the images of my God, my conditioning, that I must achieve fame or enlightenment (which is the same thing), that I must achieve success and so I am afraid of being a failure. I have so many images about myself and about you. How am I to be free of them? Can I end the building of images through the analytical process? Obviously not.

多年来,我建立了我和他人的意象;我通过行动和信仰等等隔离了我自己。于是我的第一个问题是---我怎么才能去除掉这些意象?---我的神,我的条件反应化,我要获得名望或觉醒(那是同样的东西),我要取得成功因而怕失败等等,这些意象。我对自己和你的意象是如此之多。我怎么能从这些中解脱?我能通过分析的过程来结束那意象累积吗?显然不能。

 

Then what am I to do? It is a problem and I must end it, not carry it over to the next day. If I do not end it today, then the problem creates disorder, a disturbance, and the brain needs order to function healthily, normally, not neurotically.

那么我要做什么?它是个问题,我要结束它,不把它带到明天。如果我今天不结束它,那么那个问题产生了无序,产生了干扰,然而大脑需要秩序,来健康而正常地运做,而非神经质地运做。

<<The Awakening of Intelligence>>智慧的觉醒...334和335页)

 

 

 

 

I must establish order now, during the day, otherwise the mind worries about it, has dreams and is incapable of being fresh the next morning; so I must end this problem.

How am I to prevent this building of images? By not creating a super-image - obviously. I have many images and not being able to be free of them the mind unfortunately invents a super. image, the higher self, the Atman;

 -----------------------------

 即使他们可以接受各种信仰,从事各种社会工作,但如果没有真正建立没有任何冲突的关系,一切也就毫无意义。///////他们也许能接收各种形式的信仰,或许也能从事社会工作。。。。//////////他们可能同时接受各种各样的信仰、可能一起做着同样的社会工作,然而这些并不能说明他们建立了真正的关系——真正的关系是在任何层面都没有丝毫的冲突!

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

 

稻城客(241032500) 11:04:29
Unless one deeply understands the truth about relationship, it appears that human beings must inevitably end in sorrow, in confusion and in conflict.  请问这句怎么翻译好?
无径之途(534424375) 11:12:24
如果没有深入地觉知到什么是真正的关系,那么人类将必然会陷于悲伤、迷惑与矛盾之中!
孤星之爱(396211233) 11:14:13
缺乏深入的了解都会导致狭隘进而困惑。
无径之途(534424375) 11:16:39
这里关键是对关系二字的理解。包括你与自己的思想和自己生存的自然、文化环境
稻城客(241032500) 11:17:03
除非一个人深刻地理解了关系的真相,否则人必然会陷入悲伤,困惑与矛盾冲突之中。
樹.(23386054) 11:17:14
除非一个人深深地了解关于关系的真相,否则看来人必须不可避免地在哀痛,在混乱和在冲突中结束。
(该用户免费使用手机QQ登录,详情请查看:http://mobile.qq.com/c )
稻城客(241032500) 11:17:14
这样翻译,好吗?
稻城客(241032500) 11:22:36
除非一个人深刻地理解了关系的真相,否则看来人必然会最终处于悲伤,困惑与矛盾冲突之中。--------这样翻译,好吗?
樹.(23386054) 11:23:56
这段出自哪里 
稻城客(241032500) 11:24:21
The Awakening of Intelligence
无径之途(534424375) 11:25:22
智慧的觉醒不是有中译本吗?
稻城客(241032500) 11:25:47
没有啊
无径之途(534424375) 11:26:38
哦,忘了,我自己翻译的,还有有发行
无径之途(534424375) 11:26:46
没有发行
稻城客(241032500) 11:27:48
unless they have established between themselves a relationship in which there is no conflict whatever.---------------- 其中的“between themselves”怎么翻译
无径之途(534424375) 11:29:58
这是说两个人要想有真正的交流必先建立真正的关系,所以between themselves就是指他们想要交流的这两个人
稻城客(241032500) 11:30:17
我看也是
无径之途(534424375) 11:33:13
如果你英文还行,那就不要翻译过来看。语言并不能传达真实,况且你还经过转换。克的书是用听的,是一面镜子,你看的不是那面镜子,而是镜子里的你自己!
稻城客(241032500) 11:34:39
克“他们可以接受不同的信仰,或做社会工作,但那些都没有价值,除非他们自己之间建立了没有一丝冲突的关系,才有价值。”--------翻译的句子通顺明了吗?
无径之途(534424375) 11:36:12
从语言上讲不是很好
稻城客(241032500) 11:38:07
请问 那里 要改?
无径之途(534424375) 11:40:11
如果你是一名翻译工作者,那么你应该精确忠于原著,但是有时候因为两种语言的文化背景不同,你必须有所转换
稻城客(241032500) 11:41:41
忠于原著  做到了,这里没有“文化背景不同”的问题
樹.(23386054) 11:42:01
relationship这个词有没有特指? 
稻城客(241032500) 11:42:39
没有
樹.(23386054) 11:43:23
你换成的是什么意思? 
稻城客(241032500) 11:43:36
They may accept various forms of belief, or do social work, but all that has no value, unless they have established between themselves a relationship in which there is no conflict whatever.
克“他们可以接受不同的信仰,或做社会工作,但那些都没有价值,除非他们自己之间建立了没有一丝冲突的关系,才有价值。”
无径之途(534424375) 11:43:38
说实话,克的语言是十分口语化,用词十分简单,但并不是说直译出来就总是可行的。当然总是加入自己的理解就更可怕了。比如胡因梦翻译的世界在你心中,简直是在误导人
樹.(23386054) 11:44:41
我被误导了  
稻城客(241032500) 11:47:06
(除非他们自己之间建立了。。。)除非他们自己和自身之间建立了。。。。这样翻译才准确吧?否则模糊。
稻城客(241032500) 11:48:55
而不是两个人之间 ,是自己和自己之间???
无径之途(534424375) 11:58:36
他们可能同时接受各种各样的信仰、可能一起做着同样的社会工作,然而这些并不能说明他们建立了真正的关系——真正的关系是在任何层面都没有丝毫的冲突!
稻城客(241032500) 12:03:57
 
稻城客(241032500) 12:15:58
他们可能接受了信仰的各种形式,或做同样的社会工作,但那些都没有价值,除非他们自己之间建立了没有一丝冲突的真正的关系,才有价值。
稻城客(241032500) 12:16:07
这样更好吧?
无径之途(534424375) 12:20:45
好不好,去问问没看过英文原著的人,问他们怎么理解的你翻译的这句话,看他们理解的偏差和原文的意思大不大,你不就知道了。   给你一个建议,翻译要以篇为思考切入点,而不是句

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